Class Discussion, Main Room
Date 1/15/98
Start log: Thursday, January 15, 1998 3:25:56 pm Virtual Park Hall
time --
JoeSa says, "Actually it's a badjour, but anyway"
KurtDa says, "here we go..."
JoeSa says, "yippee doo"
JasonOg says, "Noone is here yet"
KurtDa says, "yea, we're missing Wendy and Nick and a few other people"
GeraldLa has arrived.
Mr.Cole says, "Hmm. a little short today, but we ought to start."
JoeSa says, "Hey MiMa, was Shannon sick yesterday?"
MiMa says, "yes" "
JulieOw has arrived.
Mr.Cole says, "How's everbody doing"
AndrewGo says, "fine""
JasonOg says, "I think we will be discussing if grading students is necessary today"
KurtDa says, "good"
JulieOw says, "fine"
MiMa says, "We both have bronchi-something""
JoeSa says, "Great"
FrankBl says, "pretty good "
JenniferCa says, "fairly well"
KurtDa says, "boy I'm glad we're not in the classroom then"
JasonOg says, "getting wet"
MiMa says, "your funny""
Mr.Cole says, "I wanted to start with another slide show before tackling Goodman."
JoeSa says, "woops, not great for your lungs but in response to Mr. Coles question"
KurtDa says, "I thought you we're in Tate Jason, how are you getting wet?"
NickSm has arrived.
JenniferCa says, "i had to change my shoes and socks already today"
KurtDa says, "What's up Nick"
JasonOg says, "I go outside"
NickSm says, "howdy"
Mr.Cole says, "So, dim the lights, again:"
Mr.Cole shows slide #1.
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COMMA BASICS
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NickSm says, "yeah he is"
Mr.Cole shows slide #2.
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Commas are a pesky, but important, piece of punctuation.
The main thing to remember with commas is:
YOU MUST HAVE A REASON FOR EACH COMMA YOU USE.
Do not insert commas willy-nilly into your writing. It will
confuse readers (and hurt your grammar grade).
While there are many uses for commas (extensively detailed
in SMH Ch. 30), I am going to focus on four key reasons,
the ones that most often cause errors in student writing.
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Mr.Cole shows slide #3.
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Introductory Elements (IE)
A comma should be used after an introductory element. An
introductory element is a word, phrase or clause that comes
before the main part of the sentence. It usually modifies
the main clause.
Before she went insane, she taught English at UGA.
(intro. subordinate clause)
However, she was never truly sane.
(intro. conjunctive adverb)
If the introductory element is very short, you can sometimes
leave out the comma, but you will never be wrong if you include
the comma.
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Mr.Cole says, "Questions?"
NickSm says, "no"
KurtDa says, "No"
JoeSa says, "No Sir"
FrankBl says, "no"
MiMa says, "no sir""
JulieOw says, "no"
Mr.Cole shows slide #4.
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Introductory Elements (cont.)
NOTE: Coordinating conjunctions (for, and, nor, but, or, yet,
since) are NOT introductory elements. Strictly speaking, you
should not begin a sentence with a coordinating conjunction,
but it is often done for stylistic reasons. I am OK with that,
as long as you do not add unnecessary commas.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
GeraldLa says, "no"
JasonOg says, "no"
Mr.Cole shows slide #5.
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Contrasting Elements (CE)
Contrasting elements should be set off by commas. Contrasting
elements suggest contrast or opoosition and are usually signalled
by words like but, yet, and not.
Wilma, not Betty, has a necklace made of rocks.
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Mr.Cole says, "Tell me if I'm going too fast...."
FrankBl says, "so should we use a comma if we start a sentence with but"
KurtDa says, "Shouldn't start a sentance with but"
Mr.Cole says, "Right of shouldn't"
Mr.Cole says, "People have a tendency to use "but" and "yet" like "however." But they are different."
WendyFr has arrived.
Mr.Cole shows slide #6.
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Compound Sentence (2IC)
A compound sentence (one containing two or more independent
clauses) is formed with a comma followed by a coordinating
conjunction:
Bart Simpson does not like school, but his sister
Lisa does.
You can call me "Ray," or you can call me "Jay,"
but you don't have to call me "Johnson."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
KurtDa says, "hi Wendy, you're late"
WendyFr says, "it's impossible to get on a bus!"
Mr.Cole shows slide #7.
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Compound Sentences (cont.)
The coordinating conjunctions are for, and, nor, but, or,
yet, and so (FANBOYS). Other conjunctions are subordinating and
do NOT take a comma:
Parents dislike "South Park" because it contains
bad language.
Some conjunctions can be used to create compound subjects or
predicates. These also do not take a comma:
Bill and Ted had an excellent adventure.
Homer drinks beer and watches TV.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
JasonOg says, "pay attention"
FrankBl says, "should you off set Lisa as an apostrophe"
WendyFr says, "what are we doing?"
NickSm says, "grammer stuff"
WendyFr says, "cool"
Mr.Cole says, "Talking about commas, Wendy. I don't understand Frank's question"
WendyFr says, "good deal"
Mr.Cole shows slide #7.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Compound Sentences (cont.)
The coordinating conjunctions are for, and, nor, but, or,
yet, and so (FANBOYS). Other conjunctions are subordinating and
do NOT take a comma:
Parents dislike "South Park" because it contains
bad language.
Some conjunctions can be used to create compound subjects or
predicates. These also do not take a comma:
Bill and Ted had an excellent adventure.
Homer drinks beer and watches TV.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Mr.Cole says, "oops, sorry."
Mr.Cole shows slide #8.
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Non-restrictive Elements (NRE)
Nonrestrictive clauses are set off by commas. These are the
parts of a sentence often called, somewhat misleadingly,
"the part you could just take out." More accurately, they are
additional information that does not limit or RESTRICT the
meaning of the sentence.
Kenny, who dies every week, is my favorite South
Park character.
Here, "Kenny" is enough to specify which character I am
referring to. "Who dies every week" doesn't restrict the
meaning any further, it is "extra" information.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
FrankBl says, "on the slide before you had a sentence including "his sister Lisa" and I was wondering if Lisa should be off set"
Dr.Ballif has arrived.
JoeSa says, "Somebody say something'"
KurtDa says, "Well Mr Cole?"
WendyFr says, "something"
Mr.Cole says, "The sentence was Bart Simpson does not like school, but his sister "
Mr.Cole says, "Lisa in the previous sentence is restrictive (Bart has two sisters), so no commas."
NickSm says, "funny girl"
FrankBl says, "O.K."
KurtDa says, "Good afternoon Dr. Ballif"
Mr.Cole says, "The next slide explains that a bit more:"
Mr.Cole shows slide #9.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Restrictive Elements
Restrictive elements, on the other hand, DO limit or restict
the meaning of the phrase being modified. For example:
The character who dies every week is named Kenny.
Here "character" is not specific and "who dies every week"
is essential to specifying _which_ character. It restricts the
meaning of character and thus is not set off by commas.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Mr.Cole says, "OK? This restrictive/nonrestictive stuff can be pretty tricky."
WendyFr says, "is anyone here?"
MiMa says, """ok""
NickSm says, "we're here"
JenniferCa says, "is that the same as essential and nonessential"
FrankBl says, "I am here"
NickSm says, "loud and clear"
JasonOg says, "yes"
KurtDa says, "yes, we're listening to Mr. Cole"
AndrewGo says, "look"
Mr.Cole says, "Sort of, Jennifer, but I think restrictive nonrestrictive is a bit more accurate."
JenniferCa says, "ok"
Mr.Cole says, "Last slide..."
Mr.Cole shows slide #10.
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Other Situations
You may be familiar with a few other common comma uses:
1) items in a series: My grandmother's favorite shows are
"The Simpsons," "The Tick," and "60 Minutes."
2) compound adjectives: That is one, big hairy spider.
3) interjections and direct address: Who, dude, that's radical.
4) quotations: Quotations are a special case and will be
covered later. In the meantime, though, you can check SMH, 30h
(p. 473) if you have questions.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
JasonOg says, "cool"
MiMa says, "in 2, shouldn't there be a comma after big?'"
Mr.Cole says, "Remember, all this stuff (and a good bit more) in the St. Martin's. If you don't remember the rule, look it up. Eventually you'll be able to impress your firends."
KurtDa says, "Whats a firend?"
Mr.Cole says, "Good point, Mi. My bad proofreading."
NickSm says, "yeah my friends and i have weekly grammer studdy groups"
JasonOg says, "Kurt, shut up"
Mr.Cole says, "Friend, that is."
Mr.Cole says, "So, are we happy with commas?"
WendyFr says, "we'll forgive you, Mr. Cole"
MiMa says, "yes""
Mr.Cole says, "Thanks"
WendyFr says, "yeah"
GeraldLa says, "yes"
AndrewGo says, "yes"
JoeSa says, "10:04"
FrankBl says, "yes"
NickSm says, "shut up Kurt"
JasonOg says, "I'm going to virtual Spanish"
KurtDa says, "What?"
JulieOw says, "yes"
MiMa says, "do we go to our rooms now?""
Mr.Cole says, "OK, then. Here's the deal."
Mr.Cole says, "Today, I want each group to discuss the Goodman essay assigned for today."
Mr.Cole says, "Consider the following basic questions:"
Mr.Cole says, "What is Goodman's argument?"
Mr.Cole says, "What evidence or reasons does he offer in support of his argument?"
Mr.Cole says, "What are the strongest/weakest parts of the argument?"
Mr.Cole says, "Is Goodman making any assumptions that someone might disagree with?"
Mr.Cole says, "Overall, do you find this a convincing or unconvincing argument?"
Mr.Cole says, "After you have discussed this for a while, select a group leader and return to the main room. "
Mr.Cole says, "Then I will ask each leader to present the group's conclusions (or points on which they could not agree) to the whole class. "
Mr.Cole says, "If we have time, we might try some large group discussion."
Mr.Cole says, "Got it?"
WendyFr says, "got it, I think"
MiMa says, "got it""
JoeSa says, "me too"
KurtDa says, "Hold on, I can't memorize that stuff that fast"
WendyFr leaves for the One.
FrankBl says, "got it"
MiMa goes out.
NickSm leaves for the Four.
JulieOw leaves for the Two.
KurtDa leaves for the Two.
AndrewGo leaves for the Two.
JoeSa leaves for the One.
MiMa has arrived.
FrankBl leaves for the Three.
MiMa leaves for the Four.
Mr.Cole says, "You should be able to scroll back up if you want to re-read it."
JenniferCa leaves for the Three.
GeraldLa leaves for the Four.
GeraldLa has arrived.
GeraldLa leaves for the Three.
JasonOg says, "mr. cole, is the Goodman essay the one about grades"
Mr.Cole says, "Yes"
JasonOg says, "thank you"
JasonOg leaves for the Three.
Mr.Cole leaves for the Four.
Dr.Ballif leaves for the One.
Mr.Cole has arrived.
Mr.Cole leaves for the Two.
Mr.Cole has arrived.
Mr.Cole leaves for the Three.
Dr.Ballif has arrived.
Dr.Ballif leaves for the Two.
Mr.Cole has arrived.
Mr.Cole says, "Hey everybody, try to wrap it up and get ready to come out here."
JasonOg has arrived.
GeraldLa has arrived.
JenniferCa has arrived.
Dr.Ballif has arrived.
FrankBl has arrived.
WendyFr has arrived.
JoeSa has arrived.
JoeSa leaves for the One.
JoeSa has arrived.
AndrewGo has arrived.
NickSm has arrived.
KurtDa has arrived.
JulieOw has arrived.
MiMa has arrived.
WendyFr says, "Hello everyone!"
Mr.Cole says, "Ok, that's just about everyone. Group 1, who's you're leader"
WendyFr says, "Joe"
Mr.Cole says, "Joe, what did you conclude?"
WendyFr says, "Joe is a slow typer"
ScottFr has arrived.
ScottFr leaves for the Two.
ScottFr has arrived.
Mr.Cole says, "Hi Scott, you're way late."
ScottFr say, "I was in a little wreck"
Mr.Cole says, "Ouch."
NickSm says, "you ok"
ScottFr say, "fine no injuries"
FrankBl says, "you ok"
JoeSa says, " I concluded that Mr. Goodman strongly supported the testing system. Also he concluded that students wouldnt be challenged if theywerent tested. They would get lazy. "
WendyFr says, "are you still in one piece, Scott?"
FrankBl says, "was it your fault"
ScottFr say, "no my sister was driving and just went off the road into a ditch"
JoeSa says, "yikes"
Mr.Cole says, "Scott's OK, so let's stick to Goodman."
ScottFr say, "what are we doing"
WendyFr says, "good deal"
Mr.Cole says, "Group 2, want to comment on Joe's synopsis?"
WendyFr says, "tell them how it is, Joe."
Dr.Ballif goes out.
Mr.Cole says, "Anyone?"
AndrewGo says, "Yeah, Kurt is our man, if he can't do it no one can"
NickSm says, "anyone want to comment..."
JasonOg says, "Jenny, the Queen of Three"
WendyFr says, "someone please comment"
GeraldLa says, "jenny?"
FrankBl says, "Jenny"
JasonOg says, "let's go Jen"
Mr.Cole says, "Are we shy, slow, or both?"
JenniferCa says, "no...not peer preasure"
NickSm says, "come on"
KurtDa says, "We decided that it's like the drinking paradox; there is no drinking age in Mexico, so there isn't a big drinking problem, but if you just legalized drinking in the US, everyone underage would go crazy. We thought that if it did
occur, there would have to be a period of adjustment for students. He did make valid points though."
JoeSa says, ""yeah I'm just too good"
WendyFr says, "good point Kurt"
Mr.Cole says, "OK, How about the other groups?"
JasonOg says, "there is no drinking problem in Mexico my rear end"
JoeSa says, "wow that went by pretty fast"
KurtDa says, "Not with underage drinking, because they grow up without having this sense of rebellion"
NickSm says, "well the argument is good but his note about parents is a fallacy, isn't it--post hoc or false analagy?"
WendyFr says, "very true"
JasonOg says, "JENNY"
Mr.Cole says, "Yeah, we're pretty much out of time. "
JenniferCa says, "we made a point that tests couls show intelligence but could not show effort put int the class"
JasonOg says, "my point"
GeraldLa says, "good job jenny"
Mr.Cole says, "NOW, y'all start talking. "
FrankBl says, "good job jenny"
JenniferCa says, "like it could work but who would really want it to"
JasonOg says, "Rock on Jen"
Mr.Cole says, "I hate to cut his off, but we're out of time. Listen up..."
KurtDa says, "I don't agree with the part about standardized testing, I think the SAT has no credibility "
Mr.Cole says, "STOP!!!!!!"
JasonOg says, "what did you make"
NickSm says, "when do we get into fallacies?"
KurtDa says, "ok, no more"
JasonOg says, "I want to learn"
Mr.Cole says, "Tomorrow, we are NOT in the MOO. There will be an assignment on the Web Board for you to do. Also, we don't meet Monday for MLK day. However, check the syllabus for the various things I want you to work on."
Mr.Cole says, "OK?"
NickSm says, "i wish this period was longer-kinda weird isn't it"
KurtDa says, "where do we meet?"
ScottFr say, "Mr. Cole did I miss anything important"
JoeSa says, "so were do we go"
GeraldLa says, "can we go?"
JasonOg says, "bye"
GeraldLa says, "later"
JasonOg has disconnected.
GeraldLa has disconnected.
FrankBl says, "where do we meet tomarrow"
JulieOw has disconnected.
WendyFr says, "when do we turn in the assignment?"
NickSm says, "a demain"
NickSm goes out.
JenniferCa says, "au revoir"
JenniferCa goes out.
JoeSa says, "a bientot"
ScottFr say, "sorry, I tried to get here as quick as possible"
Mr.Cole says, "tomorrow, just check the WB and the responding instructions will be explained there"
FrankBl says, "see ya ll"
KurtDa says, "Hasta Manana."
WendyFr says, "good deal"
ScottFr say, "alright, thank you and have a nice weekend"
FrankBl has disconnected.
JoeSa says, "thanks Mr. Cole. Have a good day"
WendyFr says, "Bye"
MiMa has disconnected.
Mr.Cole says, "Bye all. Andrew, let's go to my office."
ScottFr waves.
AndrewGo leaves for the Office.
ScottFr goes out.
End log: Thursday, January 15, 1998 4:17:47 pm Virtual Park Hall time --